The Congressional Globe, Volume 13, Part 1: Twenty-Eighth Congress, First Session Page: 12
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12
CONGRESSIONAL GJ.OBE
gentleman from New York [Mr. Barnard] have
lea ve to read the paper which he had offered- Gen-
tlemen were mistaken if they supposed that (hey were
to fee driven into the discussion of the merits of the
question of the legality or illegality of returns in this
way. When thequestion should come up before them,
(ifit ever did come up)—-\s;hen the majority here, who
nad professed so much magnanimity, should give
them an opportunity of meeting the question upon
its- real merits, they would be found icady to meet
it; but they were not to be driven into its_ discus-
sion by a. motion involving only an immaterial point
with which they had in fact nothing to do. It was
a question about which gentlemen had no discretion
whatever, no matter how strong their party feel-
ings might be. If gentlemen regarded the obligations
of duty, if they regarded the oath they took
upon the holy Evangelists, yesterday, to support
the Constitution of the United States, they could
have no discretion in reference to this matter; the
paper must necessaiily go upon the journals.
The members of that House had taken an oath to
support the Constitution of the United States; that
Constitution declares that the House of Represen-
tatives shall keep a journal of its proceedings.
What were the proceedings of the House? And
of what was the journal to consist? The journal
could be nothing else than a statement of facts—•
a record of proceedings; and they had seen
that it was necessary to put such record upon the
journals—a record not only of what was done, but
what they refused to do. Was there any gentleman
there present, who was prepared, after the oath
he took yesterday, to say that the paper in ques-
tion should not be made a part of the journal or rec-
ord of the proceedings? Was any one prepared to
say that the gentleman from Pennsylvania had not,
in effect, moved that it be made a part of the journal,
by moving that the gentleman from New Yoik
have leave to read it? In coming to a vote upon
that motion, they would be under the necessity of
placing the paper upon the journal. It was not a
question about the paper itself, but the mere matter
of fact as to whether the motion was made that
the paper should be read. The gentleman from
Virginia took the ground that there was no motion
made yesterday to put the paper upon the journal;
and he seemed to be surprised that a motion should
now be made to amend-thejournal, because there
had been no motion, and, consequently, that none
could be amended. Why, there cert<unly had been
a motion made and rejected; there was 110 propo-
sition, it is true, for entering it upon the journal;
but the very act of voting down the resolution was
a part of the proceedings of that House.
_ [Here Messrs. WISE and C. J. 1JNGERSOLL,
from the joint committee appointed to wait upon
the President of the United States, and inform
him that the two Houses were organized and ready
to proceed to business, reported that the Piesident
had replied that he would immediately submit to
them a message in writing.J
Mr. RAYNER then continued. It was, he said,
too weighty and important a question to be passed
over in the slightand contemptuousmannerin which
some gentlemen seemed disposed to treat it—par-
ticularly the gentleman from New Hampshire,
and the gentleman from Georgia. As those gentle-
men were personally interested in the matter, he
did not blame them ; but the minority here,
and those who signed the protest, equally be-
lieve it to be a question of great importance—a
question which strikes at the Constitution and
the law of the land—a question, the' decision of
which would set a precedent to ail future time; and
upon that decibion would depend whether nullifica-
tion should be the order of the day, or whether the
Constitution and the law should be vindicated and
sustained. Those who had signed this protest be-
lieved it a duty which they owed the country to
make such protest; and they insisted not only that
it should be placed upon the journal as a part of
tile proceedings of that House, but that it should go
down to posterity as a part of the history of this
country. The proceedings of yesterday, he thought,
were enough to cure every man of all the lingering
remains of nullification. The question, he repeat-
ed, was, whether nullification should be practised
here daily, m its most odious form; or whether gen-
tlemen were ready to vindicate the Constitution
and the law of the land; and he sincerely hoped the
question would be decided independently of party
feeling. Great as'had been the efforts which party
tyranny had made, and often a3 they had seen the
Constitution and laws disregarded, yet lie had never
seen an attempt to keep from the journals any pa-
per, except the contents of such paper were dis-
respectful to the House itself. This objection did
not apply to the paper in question. It was calm
and argumentative in its tone. It was no abortive
attempt, as the gentleman from Virginia had
charged, to tamper with the organization of the
House. The fact, as it stood, ought to appeal to
their magnanimity—to their sense of justice; and he
now appealed to that magnanimity, and that sense
of justice, and he hoped the House would not lose
sight of the question. It was not in regard to the
election returns, or in regard to the constituency of
members, but it was in regard to the mere matter of
fact as to whether the gentleman from Pennsylvania
[Mr. J. R. Ingersoll] did move yesterday that the
gentleman from New York have leave to read the
paper.
Mr. GILMER desired to say a single word in
relation to this question. The gentleman from
North Carolina [Mr. Ratner] had spoken of the
oath which members of that House had taken to
support the Constitution, and had reminded them
that it was one of the provisions of the Constitution
that a journal should be kept of the proceedings of
that House. That was all very true; but the ques-
tion still remained, and gentlemen had not attempted
to meet it. Does this paper constitute any part of
the proceedings of that House? That was the
point of inquiry. He would ask the gentleman
from North Carolina [Mr. Ratner] and the gentle-
man from New York, [Mr. Barnard,] both of
whom were sagacious enough, whether there was
110 means by which the paper could be placed upon
the journals, except that which had been proposed.
It must be apparent to those gentlemen themselves,
that there were two modes of effecting it. One
mode would be to procure the reading of the paper,
and then it would necessarily be spread upon the
journal; and the gentleman from North Carolina
himself had reminded the House that a motion had
been made for that purpose by the gentleman
from Pennsylvania. The question was put, and
negatived, and the paper was not lead; consequent-
ly, there was no proceeding. There was but one
other mode, and that was the mode which was
about to be resorted to to-day. It was one which
could not have been adopted yesterday. It was, he
would admit, an indirect mode, and one which was
sanctioned by 110 rule of the House, or existing
law; but it was recognised by usage, that, when a
proposition was submitted to the liouse, no matter
of what character or description, all papers and doc-
uments connected therewith may be spread upon
the journal. And the reason must be obvious, if
the yeas and nays were called; or, if the vote were
taken in any other way, it would be precisely the
same. But were the yeas and nays called in this
instance? They were not, because the House was
not organized. And I might here (said Mr. G.) set
up an argument in opposition to the gentleman from
North Carolina, who said that the House was bound
to keep a journal; but he must remember that the
House was not then organized, and consequently
there was no House at all.
These are the only two modes by which the pa-
per could be spread upon the journal of yesterday.
What is the result' If I have succeeded in show-
ing that it could not be entered, then there is no er-
ror. And what is the object of calling the yeas and
nays to-day, in order to place a paper upon the
journals, which could not have gone upon the jour-
nal yesterday? And, Mr. Speaker, if you had not
been so recently installed in that high station, I
would suggest for your consideration, and that of
the House, whether it is proper that any member
should have the light, by calling the yeas and nays,
to spread any and everything upon the journals of
this House. Sir, was there a member of this House,
except those whose names were signed to the pa-
per, who knew anything of its contents3
How can one know anything about that
which he has not seen? The paper was not read;
the yeas and nays were not called; therefore it was
110 part of the proceedings. Then I answer the
gentleman from North Carolina by saying: It is
true that the House is bound to keep a journal of
its proceedings; but is it bound to keep a record of
that which constitutes no part of its proceeding?
Sir, let the journal slate the truth—that is what tlic
Constitution requires; and that is what members
of this House are sworn to maintain. I have said
this much in answer to the arguments of the honora-
ble gentleman, because it certainly does seem to be
a matter of considerable importance. And I here
.repeat what I'have already said—the proper mode
of meeting the question is to meet it fairly and di-
rectly, by reference of the subject te a committee fop
deliberate investigation.
Mr. COBB said he heartily concurred 111 the mo-
tion which had been made by the gentleman from
North Carolina, and he had hoped that the gentle-,
man would confine himself to his own position, and
not fly off from the course of argument he had
laid down for himself. He agreed with the gentle-
man that the argument was premature, so far as the
constitutionality of the act was involved; and he
would not now go into a discussion of the question
with gentlemen, either on one side or the other, but
he would now give to the gentleman and the House
the assurance that every opportunity should be
presented—every means given, for a fair, full, and
deliberate discussion of the question. For himself,
he could not concede the ground that those individ-
uals who represent States electing under vthe gen-
eral-ticket system, were alone interested in the rep-
resentation. Those elected under the district sys-
tem were equally interested in the question. Hence
it was thathe was prepared now, if the proper opportu-
nity had presented itself, to discuss the question fairly,
fully, and in a proper spirit. There was but one
question that he could see now before the House;
and that was, whether they would permit to be
spread upon the journal a certain paper, whilst they
were totally unacquainted with the contents of that
paper. Can you (said Mr. C.) inform me whether
the contents of that paper are respectful towards
this House ?—whether its terms are courteous to-
wards those gentlemen who are opposed politically
to its framers? He apprehended that no gentleman
would consider this piece of information useless.
If the information which I have through means of
the public journals be correct in reference to that
paper, I, for one, have a decided objection against
putting it upon the journals of this House, on ac-
count of the terms in which it is couched. Are we
to be told here, there is 110 means by which a ma-
jority of this House may protect their own feelings,
but by a motion of the character of the one now
submitted by the gentleman from New York?—•
that your journals are to be encumbered with any-
thing and everything whatever, respectful or not,
courteous or not' I am not well enough ac-
quainted with the rules of this House to discuss the
technical question involved in the matter before
us, with the same ability with which the gentleman
from Virginia and others have done, who have ad-
dressed you; but I will say this—that if this House
is powerless in affording protection to a majority
here, the time has arrived when that power should
be legitimately provided, and legitimately exercised.
And if the House is not prepared to protect its
journals, it is time that some provision were made,
so that ill future no opportunity may be given for
encumbering them with matter which they ought
not to contain.
Mr. BELSER desired that the proposition sub-
mitted by the gentleman from New York might be
read, and also that portion of the journal wliieh
points to the action of the House on yesterday.
The President's message was here presented by
John Tyler, jr.;
And the SPEAKER inquired if it was the pleas-
ure of the House that the message should be read.
Mr. B A RNARD said he presumed there would
be no more debate on the subject of his motion, mid
that the question might be taken.
Several members having demanded the reading of
the message, the debate was suspended, and the
message was read by the Clerk.
Mr. WISE moved the printing of the usual num-
ber of copies of the message for the use of the
House, and ten thousand extia copies, with the ac-
companying documents.
Mr. BARNARD said he had 110 objection to the
question being taken 011 the motion to print; but if
it was likely to lead to a debate, he must insist 011
the order of business which occupied the attention
of the House when the message was brought in.
Mr. STRONG inquired how many the usual
number was.
Mr. WISE replied that it was one for each mem-
ber.
Mr. STRONG said he would not object to 8ucll
a number as would be strictly required for the use
of the House, but to any useless expense he could
not agree; and to print great numbers of this mess-
sage, when it was well known it would appear in
all the newspapers, (which were the ordinary chan-
nel# of communicating information to the people,)
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United States. Congress. The Congressional Globe, Volume 13, Part 1: Twenty-Eighth Congress, First Session, book, 1844; Washington D.C.. (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth2367/m1/36/: accessed May 13, 2024), University of North Texas Libraries, The Portal to Texas History, https://texashistory.unt.edu; crediting UNT Libraries Government Documents Department.