The Congressional Globe, Volume 13, Part 1: Twenty-Eighth Congress, First Session Page: 298
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2S8
CONGRESSIONAL GLOB®.
tain copies of the history of Oregon, California,
and other territories on the northwest coast of
America—the question pending being, Shall the bill
be read a second time?
Mr. BUCHANAN said he would have made
some remarks if the subject had been further enter-
tained yesterday; but having slept upon it one
night, he was adverse to saying anything until the
bill came up in regular order for debate. It was not
usual to debate bills on the stage in which this bill
now was. The bill was then ordered to a second
reading.
Mr. ARCHER expressed a desire that the bill
should then be read a second time, and ordeied to
be engrossed for a third reading.
Mr. BENTON objected to progressing with the
bill, except in the manner prescribed by the rules.
On motion by Mr. ARCHER, the report of the
Committee on Foreign Relations, accompanying the
bill, was ordered to be printed.
Mr. ARCHER gave notice to the senator from
Missouri, that he would, on Friday next, ask the
Senate to consider the bill.
The bill from the House for the relief of the
widows of officers, seamen, and marines of the
United States schooner Grampus, was read twice
and referred to the Coiftmittee on Naval Affairs.
Several other bills from the House, of a private
character, were read twice, and appropriately re-
ferred.
On motion by Mr. TAPPAN, the previous orders
of the day were postponed, and the bill to repeal
the act to amend the act of March, 1838, to change
the time of holding the circuit and district courts of
the district of Ohio, was taken up as in committee
of the whole; and there being no proposition to
amend, it was reported to the Senate, and ordered to
be engrossed for a third reading.
OREGON.
Mr. SEMPLE moved the Senate to proceed to
the consideration of the resolution directing the
President of the United States to give notice to the
British government for the termination of that pro-
vision of the treaty allowing a joint occupation of the
Oregon Territory. But Messrs. BENTON and
CHOATE having suggested that there was but a
small attendance of the Senate, he withdrew his
motion; and gave notice that he would, on to-mor-
row, press the motion to take up and dispose of that
resolution.
The engrossed bill, entitled "An act for repairing
and repaving a portion of Pennsylvania avenue,
came up for consideration; and on the question,
Shall the bill pass?
Mr. ALLEN demanded the yeas and nays; which
were ordered and taken; and the bill passed by yeas
22, nays 7, as follows:
YEAS—Messrs. Archer, Bagby, Barrow, Bates, Benton,
Buchanan. Choate, Clayton, Dayton, Evans, Foster, Fran-
ei.., Haywood, King, Mangum, Meuick, Miller, Rives, Sim-
mons, Sturgeon, White, and Woodlmry—22.
NAYS.—Messrs. Allen, Atchison, Atherton, Breose, Ilan-
negan, Semple, and Tappan- 7.
The joini resolution from the House, accepting
the sword of Washington, and the stall" of Frank-
lin, was read the third time, and passed.
The bill for the relief of George Davenport, was
taken up, as in committee of the whole; and after a
few remarks by Mr. SEMPLE in opposition to it,
and by Messrs. BREESE and KING in its favor,
it was reported to the Senate, and ordered to be en-
grossed for a third reading.
PENSION AGENTS.
The bill making compensation to pension agents
was taken up, as in committee of the whole, for
consideration.
Mr. BATES said, as the law now stood, there
was no compensation provided for pension agents,
nor could they obtain any, without resorting to in-
direct means. This bill proposed to allow to them
2 per cent, on a certain amount, not to exceed, under
any circumstances, $1,000; which maximum, or
less sum, was subject to the control of the Secretary
of the Treasury. He considered the bill indispen-
sable, and hoped it would pass.
Mr. HAYWOOD moved that the words "five
hundred" be substituted for "one thousand" He
thought the charities of this government should be
more cheaply administered.
Mr. BATES hoped the senator from North Car-
olina would not insist on pressing his admendment.
He would perceive that the maximum was placed
under the control of the Secretary of the Treasury,
who would not grant it, unless to such individuals
who proved themselves deserving of it.
Mr. BUCHANAN inquired from the senator
from Massachusetts, if the pension agents were not,
in most cases, presidents, directors, cashiers, or
clerks of banks.
Mr. BATES said, not in his State; for other
States he was not prepared to answer. If it was the
case or not, it might be presumed that the Secretary
of the Treasury would take care not to allow com-
pensation where it was not deserved. In Massa-
chusetts there was no bank director so employed;
and there, -where hundreds of thousands passed
through pension agents' hands, he did not think
$1,000 too great a compensation.
Mr. BUCHANAN was aware that a short time
back there was a war raging in Philadelphia be-
tween two banks, to see which would become the
depository of this fund; and it was fair to infer, that
if there were no benefits to be derived from it,
there would be no struggle between them. He
thought that when a benefit was derived to a bank
by the holding of these deposites, from its servants
or officers being pension agents, no compensation
should be granted.
Mr. BAGBY said, in Alabama the difficulty was
to get proper persons, connected or not connected
with banks, to accept the trust. He knew an in-
stance where, by strength of personal solicitation
alone, a responsible person could be prevailed on to
accept the appointment of pension agent. He
thought that public services ought to be paid for, to
secure their faithful discharge. The situation of
pension agent was one of the most difficult and
troublesome in the country; his duties, at the same
time, were most praiseworthy, in paying off the
national obligations to those who earned them in
the face of death and danger. He would therefore
vote for the bill as originally introduced.
Mr. HAYWOOD confessed that he had no hope,
when he proposed the amendment, that it would
pass, for the simple reason that it advocated the
reduction of salaries. He thought it would be no
great curse to the country if bankers, brokers, and
citizens, would refuse to act; and, by doing so, com-
pel government to adopt some system that would
prevent imposition.
He contended that the pensioners were plunder-
ed by having to pay such high fees to agents, and
that they would be more benefited by receiving
their pensions direct from the treasury. He was
for paying public servants liberally; but he thought
some stations should be left for those seeking no
compensation, and who were willing to fill them for
the good of the nation. The proposed bill would
not prevent .pension agents from using the money
intrusted to them for disbursement; and, convinced
of that, he felt assured that $500 was enough, if not
too much.
Mr. BATES thought the coming here of twenty
thousand men and ten thousand women from all
parts of the United States to get paid, would create
a greater evil than could arise from their being paid
at home by agents. And as to the extortion de-
scribed, he could not speak for North Carolina; but
he could for Massachusetts. No such cause of
complaint could be made in that State, nor, he be-
lieved, in any other. If it was at all fair to give
compensation for public services, he thought this
bill could not be objected to.
Mr. WOODBURY alluded to the number of
presidents of banks who were, some short time
back, and from aught he knew to the contrary,
were still pension agents. Fnil nine-tenths were so;
and that argued strongly that banks must derive an
interest from the appointment. He thought $500
would be a sufficient allowance, and as much as the
Secretary of War might be disposed to allow, as all
the real expense would be the payment of a clerk
for three or four weeks; and if a special agent was
necessary, $500 would be still enough, as his ser-
vices would be only for three or four weeks, and
not for the duration of a year. ,
Mr. SIMMONS said the agent for Rhode Island
was president of a bank, but the deposites were not
kept in that bank for the last four years; and, con-
trary to any benefit accruing to that bank, it lost by
the appointment, as it paid $800 dollars per year for
the services of an efficient officer to attend alone to
the pension business.
Mr. DAYTON was in favor of the bill. He
knew the labors of clerks, in attending to pension
claims, were devoted for weeks before and after the
day of payment: this was in the small State of New
Jersey; and he knew further, that the labor was not
confined to the clerk or clerks, but to the president,
who, for days and weeks, was similarly engaged.
The labor did not consist in paying the sums award-
ed to those on the lists, but to the examination of pen-
sion papers, letters of attorney from all parts of the
State, and seeing that they were fully and properly
authenticated. He believed that the expense to
pensioners of receiving their pay through agents,
amounted to about one dollar per head, being by far
less than they could in any other way obtain it—
less than the postage would be on it from Washing-
ton to where many of them resided.
Mr. BUCHANAN argued that it was desirable
for banks to become the holders of government de-
posites; it gave them, in the eyes of the people,
greater credit; it was a kind of national endorse-
ment of their stability; gave a wider circulation to
their bills, in which they were certain to pay at
least all pension claims; and was to them, in every
way, an advantage. In small States, or where
small deposites were made, payment, perhaps,
ought to be allowed. He Would, therefore,
though very reluctantly, vote for the bill, provided
the amendment of the senator from North Carolina,
reducing the maximum to $500, was agreed to. He
knew the construction that would be given to the
clause empowering the Secretary of War to allow
the maximum. Everyman, with or without preten-
sions, would pester him with claims for services
rendered; and the end would be, all would receive
the highest amount allowed.
Mr. BAGBY said, his only object was to see ade-
quate compensation provided for that class of offi-
cers to whom was confided the meritorious duty of
paying what was so long with held from the most
deserving class of claimants—those who fought and
bled for their country's good. If it would remove
the objections of the honorable senator from Penn-
sylvania, he was prepared to add a clause to the bill
by way of amendment, excluding all connected with
banks, be they presidents, directors, or clerks. He
was willing to go this far, although satisfied no such
amendment was required.
Mr. ALLEN offered an amendment that he had
prepared, excluding all bank officers and bank
stockholders from performing the office of pension
agent.
Mr. SIMMONS hoped that a latitude would be
given to the Secretary as to the sum to be paid
where small deposites were made.
Mr. FOSTER thought, from what he heard, that
the Senate was in danger of falling into error. In
Tennessee, neither bank nor private citizen could be
found willing to act as pension agent. It was held
by the Union Bank at Nashville, but thrown up
four years ago, when it was given to a most estima-
ble citizen and worthy man, whose claim for com-
pensation for the last four years' services as pension
agent was now before Congress. From informa-
tion from the most authentic source, he believed that
$1,500 would be little enough for the services of the
agent at Nashville.
Mr. BUCHANAN inquired what bank that agent
kept his deposites in.
Mr. FOSTER, In no bank, but in an iron chest
in his house. He went on to show the expenses
this gentleman was at in the execution of his duty,
and its laborious nature, occupying his whole time;
and went against the system of the cheapest labor
being the best; and predicted that, responsible men
not being found to act, government would, in the
end, suffer double from pursuing at this moment a
false economy.
Mr. HAYWOOD explained, and said he would
withdraw his amendment, so as to allow the ques-
tion to be taken on the amendment offered by the
senator from Ohio; but wished it to be understood
that he would renew it, be the fate of the other what
it might.
Mr. BAGBY repeated his arguments in favor of
the bill as introduced. Alabama, he confessed, was
not so pure as North Carolina, as described by the
honorable senator from that State; for, in Alabama,
work paid for was always the best performed. He
was no advocate for any connexion between gov-
ernment and the banks; he was utterly against it;
but the question was, Who would do the duty best—
men with or without pay? In the long run, gratui-
tous labor would be found to cost more than pen-
sion agents ever did or ever would.
Mr. FOSTER said the pensioners resident in
Tennessee amounted to nearly 1,800—he believed
the exact number was 1799—two-thirds of whom
had to be paid in Nashville, twice a year, making
for the year 3,600 payments. Now, he asked, was
it to be expected that the duty of examining all the
voucher of claims, and attending to the importunities
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United States. Congress. The Congressional Globe, Volume 13, Part 1: Twenty-Eighth Congress, First Session, book, 1844; Washington D.C.. (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth2367/m1/322/: accessed April 27, 2024), University of North Texas Libraries, The Portal to Texas History, https://texashistory.unt.edu; crediting UNT Libraries Government Documents Department.