The Congressional Globe, Volume 13, Part 1: Twenty-Eighth Congress, First Session Page: 75
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CONGRESSIONAL GLOBE.
75
defeat the object of speculators. Concealment alone
■would aid them in their designs; for, by the pur-
chase of a clerk in the departments, or other Gov-
ernment officer, they could procure such informa-
tion as would enable them to prosecute successfully
their frauds; whereas a compliance with the resolu-
tion now before the House would make known to
those rightfully entitled the evidence by which
they might obtain the bounty of the Government.
He stated that one of the officers of this House,
-within a period of two or three years, had obtained
fifty-odd thousand dollars on private claims, many
of which had passed by a vote of that House; and
such a practice might find its way into the depart-
ments, if not prevented by the publication now
asked for. He hoped the resolution would be
adopted.
Mr.THOMASSON said, either the resolution ought
to be amended, or it ought not to pass. If this reso-
lution should be made to apply to officers and sol-
diers of the last war, it should be made also applica- -
ble to the officers and soldiers of the war of the
Revolution; and he therefore moved so to amend it.
Mr. HAMLIN deprecated the affixing to his reso-
lution a rider which would bear it down and destroy
it; but he intimated that if the gentleman from Ken-
tucky would introduce his amendment as a separate
and independent proposition, it should have his
(Mr. H.'s) support.
Mr. C. JOHNSON moved the reference of the
whole subject to the Committee on Public Lands,
■with instructions to report by bill to restrict the as-
signment of these claims. This, he was of opinion,
would defeat the designs of the speculators.
Mr. DANA suggested that some difficulties might
follow the publication now asked, inasmuch as the
department might not, in all cases, possess accurate
idence of the right of the claimants; and the pub-
lic record thus made might, therefore, exclude the
I'ightful owner. He was opposed to the resolution.
Mr. DILLINGHAM said he was but little ac-
quainted with matters and things in this House, but
he had been one of the people for a good while,
and knew something about what was going on
among them. He thought he knew sufficiently well
the feelings of those he represented to induce him
to be in favor of the resolution offered by the gen-
tleman from Maine. One of the reasons which in-
fluenced him was, that he knew there was a class of
men who had most of them been in some of the
public departments of this Government, and had
had access to all the records, and -\rere well informed
of the existing claims of variou^^rsons; and to
these persons they applied to be MR their solicit-
ors, in prosecuting those claims, representing that,
unless they were employed to nurse and to prose-
cute them, they would ne\ er be recovered. By
and by, these agents or solicitors come out with
their conditions, (which were exceedingly hard con-
ditions, in most cases,) demanding a quarter, a
third, and sometimes even a half of the whole
claim; and these terms have, in most cases,
to be submitted to, whilst all that the agent
has to do is to transfer the papers relating to the
case from one bureau to another. Having access
themselves to these papers, they took care to ex-
clude the claimants themselves from all knowledge re-
specting them, other than they ehose to afford them.
And, as long as the Government refused to make
them public, they were putting it in the power of
those agents to practise a sort of extortion upon the
claimants. For this reason, if for no other, he
would vote for the resolution of the gentleman from
Maine, as he would be in favor of opening all
sources of information to the public.
Mr. BOWER said he hoped and trusted the
resolution of the geritiemo.11 from Maine would be
adopted. He could speak feelingly on this subject;
for he had had claims, and had had a variety of
communications upon the subject of those claims,
from these solicitors. He had no sort of doubt
that the gentleman from Tennessee was acting from
the best and purest motives. Nevertheless, it ap-
peared to him that the proposition of the gen-
tleman was calculated to defeat the very thing he
was aiming at. He knew that claims had been
speculated in, and would be speculated in again.
He knew many individuals who had given one-
half 01 their claims because they were not in pos-
sesion of the requisite information to enable them
to procure them. He hoped the resolution would
be adopted.
The question being upon the amendment of Mr.
C, Johnson,
Mr. STEENROD demanded the previous ques-
tion.
The demand not being seconded, however, was
withdrawn.
Mr. WELLER rose and said, as the House
seemed disposed to continue the debate, he desired
to offer a few remarks upon the subject before the
House. The design of the gentleman from Tennes-
see, in moving to refer the matter to the Committee
on Public Lands, was, he believed, to defeat the in-
tention of the gentleman from Maine. The gentle-
man from Tennessee was generally right; but when
he once got wrong, he was apt to be very wrong.
He was a very strenuous economist, and, to carry
out his principles, he seemed to think it necessary
to keep from the public eye that knowledge which
would enable certain men to put tJjeir hands into
the pockets of those persons who have claims upon
this Government. The whole amount of the argu-
ment of the gentleman from Tennessee was, that it
was the duty of the Go \ crnment to conceal informa-
tion which would enable the public to know who
have claims. The question then resolved itself into
this, whether to enable the public in general to
speculate upon these claims, or whether to re-
serve a monopoly to the clerks and others be-
longing to the public departments. As for him-
self, he was opposed to all monopolies; and he
held, therefore, that it was the duty of the
Government to proclaim to the world the statement
of these claims, that every man in the country
might be enabled to know whether he had tiny claim
on account of services perfoi mcd by his forefathers.
He could see 110 fraud that could be perpetrated
upon the Government by the publication, and as he
was aware of the fact stated by the gentleman from
Kentucky, that the department will not give per-
sons information regarding the claims to bounty
land, he hoped the resolution would be adopted.
He did not know that anything would be gained
by prolonging the discussion. He was always sorry
to differ from the gentleman from Tennessee; but as
the House had determined to continue the debate,
he had thought it right to make this brief explanation.
Upon the question of reference to the Committee
on Public Lands, a division was called for. Tellers
were appointed, who reported the vote as follows:
21 in the affirmative, and 91 in the negative.
The next amendment was that offered by Mr.
Thomasson, to print also the names of revolu-
tionary claimants.
Mr. READ said he hoped the gentleman from
Maine would accept this amendment.
Mr. HAMLIN said he would be glad to oblige
his friends 011 the other side, but he must be per-
mitted to say that he feared the Greeks and the gifts
they bring—thnto Danaos et donaferentts.
Mr. C. JOHNSON desired to say to the gentle-
man from Maine, that, if his resolution were
adopted, it would be very proper that the amendment
should be added. Though he thought they were
both wrong, yet, if one were adopted, lie would be
111 favor of the other also, to make the matter as
palatable as possible.
Mr. READ said he would vote for the amend-
ment; for he would much prefer including both
classes of cases. He believed the whole House
would be willing to vote for the resolution, if amend-
ed; and he hoped, therefore, the gentleman would
accept it.
The question being taken upon this amendment,
and the votes counted by tellers, there were ayes 75,
noes 45. So the amendment was adopted.
Mr. REDING moved a further amendment—
that the names of the officers and soldiers of the
last war, who have claims for services, be also
printed.
This amendment was adopted. And the resolu-
tion, as amended, was then adopted without a di-
vision.
THE HOME SQUADRON.
Mr. HALE offered the following resolution:
Resulted, 1 hat the Secretary of the Na\y be instructed
to report to this House when the lioir.e squadron was first
established by faw, what have been the annual expenditures
therefor, and how much ol the estimated expense of the
next year is intended for that purpose.
Mr. HAMLIN moved to amend the resolution,
by adding:
And what duty has been performed by the home squad-
ron
Mr. HALE said he would state the object of the
resolution. It appeared, from the report.of the
Secretary of the Treasury, that there would be a
deficiency pf revenue to meet the expenses of toe
Government, of over four millions and a half of dol-
lars. And to cover that deficency, he proposed the
profligate expedient of borrowing money. His own
idea was, that they ought to reduce their'expendi-
tures, so as to bring them within their income. That
was the only honest policy. And looking to find
where curtailment could best be made, he perceived
that the Secretary of the Navy asks for the Navy
Department nearly nine millions of dollars—nearly a
third of the whole revenue of the country to be ex-'
pended upon the navy.
He believed they were indebted to this administra-
tion for the home squadron. The whole sixteen
vessels which composed that squadron were said to
be necessary to protect the coasting trade; and though
the portion of the country from which he came was
deeply concerned in the coasting trade, yet he him-
self was convinced that many of those vessels might
be dispensed with. If this information were laid
before the House, they would have something tan-
giole on which to lay their hands, in the way of re-
trenchment and reform. He wanted this informa-
tion for the purpose of pointing out to the House
where an enormous expense might be cut down,
without endangering any of the interests of the
country. Gentlemen had talked about being pre-
pared with a sufficient navy to meet and contend
with the naval power of Great Britain; but had
they any idea of the outlay which was required
to support such a navy? The expense of the navy
of Great Britain amounted to between eighty and
a hundred millions of dollars annually. We were
not in want of such a great naval establishment to
make ourselves respected at home or abroad. Gen-
eral Jackson alone had produced an impression upon
one of the oldest nations of Europe, which it would
be impossible for this administration to do with the
assistance of all the navies in the world.
Let this information be laid before the House, and
they would see how they might avoid the profligate
expedient of continuing to borrow money without
being able to pay. It was not the policy which this
Government ought to pursue—for the pay-day must
come—in a time of profound peace, when every
branch of industry was in successful operation;
when tho hand of industry was reaping an abundant
reward, still to go on borrowing and incurring large
expenses for a useless navy, which had already
swallowed up an enormous sum. It was time to
stop; it was time to show the country that they were
in earnest in the matter of retrenchment; that they
meant what they said; that their professions were not
all idle and vague, but that they were determined to
carry them into execution. He asked for this in-
formation, that they might see wheiethe remedy was
to be applied. It certainly could do no harm.
Mr. C. J. INGERSOLL called for the reading of
the resolution and amendment; which being read—
Mr. C. J. INGERSOLL spoke for a few moments
in opposition to the resolution, in too low a tone of
voice to be heard. When heard, he was understood
to say that he always had thought and said that the
expenditures for the navy were more than they
ought to be. He had 110 doubt at all but that, by a
judicious system of administrative economy—not by
cutting down and tearing up by the roots; but by a
simple and pioper system—at least one million of
dollars might be saved in a year in that branch of
the public service. He did not say this much with-
out knowing what he spoke of; but he said it by the
authority of a highly respectable officer of the navy,
who, twelve months ago, was one of the commis-
sioners of the navy board. He desired, however, to
say to the gentleman from New Hampshire, and to
all the new economists of the House, that they must
begin at home; and before they commenced with
other departments of the Government they must
economize the expenditures of Congress. He held
in his hand a memorandum, which he had procured
this morning, showing the amount of the expendi-
tures, not of the Navy Department, but of the Con-
gressional departments, and he would tell gentlemen
what they amounted to. He spoke of the last Con-
gress, and, in doing so, spoke without reference to
that Congress more than any other. Sir, (said Mr.
I.,) I have it from the proper department that these
expenditures fell little short of two millions of dol-
lars. Then he had had a statement made out in the
office of the Clerk here, by which it appear-
ed that the amount exceeded two millions—
say about two millions of dollars for the expendi-
tures of the last Congress. And while (said he) we
are cutting down the navy, or any other branch of
the Government, let us do something, if we can, to
correct oar own extravagances, Let us begin here;
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United States. Congress. The Congressional Globe, Volume 13, Part 1: Twenty-Eighth Congress, First Session, book, 1844; Washington D.C.. (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth2367/m1/99/: accessed April 18, 2024), University of North Texas Libraries, The Portal to Texas History, https://texashistory.unt.edu; crediting UNT Libraries Government Documents Department.