My name is Richard Meislamer, and today is
March the 14th, 2003.
I am interviewing Mr. Abelino,
A-B-E-L-I-N-O-G-L-B-R, A-L-B-I-A-R.
It is home at 920 North Wright Street, Alice,
Texas 78332.
His phone number is area code 361-664-8230.
This interview is in support of the National
Museum of the Pacific Wars,
Center for Pacific War Studies for the
Preservation of Historical Information
Related to World War II. A.B., I want to thank
you for taking time to do this
interview today. I appreciate you coming. Okay,
let me ask you first, what is your
birth date? 1st March, 27. All right, and where
were you born? In Alford, Texas. Okay,
And did you have brothers and sisters? I got, I
had two sisters, both dead, and I
got five, four more brothers. Okay. Were any of
your brothers from World War II?
All of them. My oldest, Tomas, he was in Europe
during World War II, and Simone
was in Vietnam or Korea, and Sotero was in
Korea, and that's it. We had one
that stayed behind most of the time.
Okay, all right, so your family has really
supported this country then?
Oh yes.
In the service, okay. And what was your
father's occupation?
My father died in 1937. He was working here and
there, just labor or whatever.
1937 and well he usually worked in the farm.
Okay. Where did you go to school?
Nair school. Nair here in Allison? I've been
there. Did you go to high school here? I took
the GED
later and but I went to fifth grade. Fifth
grade, okay. And then when did you go into the
service? I went in the service May 23rd, 1945.
Okay, and 45 towards the end of the
war? At the end of the war, I worked in Yerba.
Yeah, okay, and where did you take your
training? In Fort Hood, Texas. Okay. It used to
be Camp Hood. Yeah, right, and how long was
that training? I'd say basic, basically I think
it must have been about seven
months. Okay, and what all did you do in your
training? What do we do? We start
training, boot camp, first shots, and dressing,
whatever we want to wear,
what we're supposed to, and we train day by
day, usually in the morning,
certain size, and then they take the firing
ranges, and we fire the M1
rifle I remember, the machine gun. It's the
same machine gun they used to have
when I got out. They had the .30 caliber
machine gun, M1917A1 water-cooled,
and then they had the M1917A4 with the bipod,
and they had the
1917, a six with the tripod, cool, air-cooled.
Most lights, too, were air-cooled?
No, two. Right.
And what else did you train on?
Did you, bayonet training? Bayonet.
A lot of these grenades, used grenades, mines.
And tanks were thrown over us, small tanks, not
too big, not like now.
now. You're being a foxhole to come over here.
It crumbled a little bit, but we made it. It
was not bad. I took train there. I completed my
training there on September, I think it must have
been. And most of the guys that went with me in
the same group, all of them died. In fact, I had
one of them just died, and about a year ago,
another one died.
By my age, they die one after the other.
And so I don't remember, actually, exactly.
If I ask them, they probably won't remember anything.
What did you live in there at the camp?
In barracks or tents or what? Barracks.
We trained out in the field on tents when we go
for pop tents.
Pop tents, all right. OK.
And when you finished that training, what did
you do then?
I came on for about 10, 15 days.
Then I reported to Fort Hood about two days,
one day,
maybe later.
I reported to, well, the whole train.
That was a troop train to Fort Ord, California.
So they give us shots of all kinds there.
In fact, one of my friends that died,
He put me a shot. I said, you don't know how to
use one of those needles.
He said, here I am. I said, well, okay.
Go ahead and shoot, and that's it, you know.
So, then we stayed there about two days.
They gave us cold winter clothing.
About an hour later, they bring this cold
winter training,
and let's get some summer clothing.
I said, oh, we're going to somewhere else where
it's hot.
And so they sent us the material we needed, and we
crossed United States to New York, that's Camp
Kilmer, New Jersey.
Camp Kilmer, New Jersey, okay.
I think it's Camp Kilmer, or that's where we
came in.
Camp Chant, New York, that's where we went to.
Then we came back on Camp Kilmer, New Jersey.
And those two years that I was there, I came
out to
Camp Kilmer, New Jersey. Yeah.
Now, when you went across the country, how did
you go, on a train?
No, boat.
No, I mean across the country from Fort Hood to -
Oh, yeah, train.
No nonstop.
They needed a bed up there.
But no, it was dry run, I guess.
And then when you left New York, where did you
go to?
From across the ocean? Yes.
I hit, we hit the Eagle Channel.
We went in the Eagle Channel and we came to La
Harpe, France.
I got off there and got off on the platform,
and the first thing I saw is a bomb, about
£500 bomb right in front of the, of the, what
do you call this, ramp? Right in there.
I said, don't, whatever you do, don't touch
that thing. So we keep on going into where this
barracks, where they chop us up their hair a
little bit more, and next day they put us in a
trailer, this 18-wheeler trailer for the carry
the cattle. And we kind of tied in
the truck and we left to a little town named
Henderson, Germany I think. We
crossed pretty good-sized land on the train.
And we parked in that
little town, and the first thing we did, they
moved us in the snow that
hit us up to about right here, about knee high
or a little higher. Then we went to
the barracks, which already secured. We went
inside and they select the place
where we supposed to stay, and we stay there
about two, three, four days. Then they
moves to Munich, Germany. In Germany, we landed
at the, let's see, the Indiana area they call it.
See, they got the town divided in areas with
the name of state. Then we went to,
we went in there, we trained, they assigned us,
I ended up carrying
groceries, whatever I need, all the chow. So I
carry all the equipment for
eating and all that. We got together, there was
eight of us, and from there we
we stayed there about six, seven months. Then I
got sick and I went to
First general hospital in Munich, Germany. And
so when I came out after 20 days,
they sent me to to Nuremberg, Germany. In
Nuremberg, Germany, I got there,
assigned to the same company. All they did is
move the whole thing up there. So
then I had another job there. I had guard duty
and all that. It was beautiful.
So, then we took training with their, bigger
training since we were with the anti-aircraft,
we was firing the 50 caliber machine gun, the
20 millimeter and the 40 millimeter guns.
I was the gunner of the head track of certain weapons.
We took training about 20 some days, 30 maybe,
and we
trained on that thing with airplane pads with a little
small airplane in the back.
People get crazy.
start shooting at the tail end of the airplane,
and the pilot, do you want any more? You know,
these guys are crazy. We were just practicing
and training, but some people is crazy, you
know. And I fired these four guns at one time.
That's why I've got this thing here. But the
government can't do nothing, I had to buy it.
And the quad 50s, there were four 50-calibers there?
Four, one on each side.
Yeah, two on each side.
I'm sitting in the middle. It has a little
motor in the back. That's something like a
watching machine motor. You started with the
right hand here and grab your grip mounts of
the gun
and you zeroed in four guns at one time and you
fire with the other hand.
and then with that little motor, it traverses
to the right or left, and it
also searches back up and down, and so I fire
with it. We're training, and we
supported the 1st Division, I think it was the
1st Division, big red one,
Yeah. And so we trained and I was firing these
weapons, firing these three weapons,
three weapons. It's funny how you put so much
power out of one thing. Yes. And the
halftrack is a good weapon. It's delicate, it's
very delicate compared with what we
got here now. Yeah. Like I say, in fact we was
talking about it a while ago, my wife
and I and my yard man was eating sandwiches and
I say look compare that
what we had last time of what we've got right
now very expensive so naturally
the the the nation of the United States being
in war putting all this material
all these weapons up there it cost a lot of
money and I say that's why it's a
maybe, my wife said, maybe this man just got an
interview, maybe he sent you up
there. Oh, we're gonna die anyways, but I'm too
old. No, I think, I hope they won't get
up here. And then after getting here, they say,
oh, some people say, nah, they won't get.
Well, don't be surprised when you start seeing
camels walking up and down there
and start worrying about it, and uh, so...
You were supporting the Big Red One over there
then, right? Sorry?
You were supporting the 1st Division?
The 1st Division. You see, they pulled out the
whole division and we took their places,
and actually I was usually behind the whole
thing. I was a translator for French and Italian
in German, Polish, Czech. See, I used to know
all these languages. I talked a lot, you know.
And not right now, I can't even think, but
nothing, I don't know how to speak no more.
Not even English or Spanish. But really, I was
talking with these people. They understand
me well. I understand them. I couldn't
understand the Nazis. Nazis completely out of
my hands.
I couldn't. I sent him back to the big
battalion somewhere.
And was the war still going on while you were there?
We just barely went out a few days before.
So you must have gone in in 44 instead of 45? 44.
Yeah, okay, you said 45 a while ago. 44. Okay.
We took training, then we went back to our same
locations and we got to start
putting guard and all that. They sent us for
patrols here, patrols there,
reconnaissance, it's training, you know, but
some places out there. When I got
there it was not dangerous but then we went to
big cage, cages on the side of
the Hill, a big hole in there, a pretty
good-sized hole and there's three
people that don't know that the war was over.
See we had to get
him out and by this time they realized that
something was wrong, so they took him out.
Now they have some jeeps, blinds, and machine
guns and everything in case they still want to
fight you.
But now they come out pretty clean. We didn't
have to worry, just bring them in and place
them somewhere.
And I like it. It's kind of destroyed in Germany.
I was sent to Frankfurt for a little while, but
not too much.
No, we were, I went and get some of the
rations, about five, six, seven miles from the Dug
out where they used to burn these people, the
one side, north of that, so we went up
there and get whatever we needed, and we go
around and we take it to the front line battalions.
So one battalion, company A, B, and C, and D,
and headquarters, headquarters company,
we deliver whatever they needed.
And so I took it easy from there on until they
tell me, you're selected to go home,
because I had two kids.
And I like it.
Then I came here.
I came alone.
I was the only one that came along to the
separation center in San Antonio, Fort, what
is that?
Fort Sam Houston?
Fort Sam Houston.
And they saw me with wolves.
They said, what's the matter with you guys
right here, it was hot, that.
So they gave me clothes in there and they said,
we're laying you off because you got
family for the points and all that.
I didn't want it to, I wanted to retire complete.
And so I came on, I tell him,
well, send me at this yard,
but again, leave me with the reserve,
a standby reserve or something like this.
I want to be still a unit and keep putting time there.
I put in 43 years, all combined.
And so I came here and I start tending the,
San Antonio, the reserve unit in San Antonio. I
stayed for a while and then I
went to Corpus, it was the Navy Reserve. I look
hot, I was the ugly green,
everybody white, and so they sent me to this
amphibious company right here. Here in Alice.
So I stayed there a
few, few months, then I asked the first
sergeant, not the first sergeant, the
company commander here, that if he would take
me if I come with him. Yeah, I think,
so I started as corporal I was, and I came E6,
E7. E7, okay. All the, all the way
there, whatever I put here, and I reserve, I
didn't get any rank, but with the
National Guard I get, right? Okay. In fact,
when I'm here, we had the National Guard
units about three or four blocks back here, and
we had just a garage, just one
garage. Yeah. We had about eight, nine trucks.
We have some inside and some
outside. So then the war in Korea started, in
Vietnam, and we couldn't, we didn't have
space for people, because everybody want to
come here, they didn't want to go up there
when they pick him up as a draftee, you know.
And we didn't, so we talk it over, the
sergeants here, and me, and I was the top
sergeant most
of the time here.
And so I start talking to them, let's go to the
Duke of Texas political, George Parr.
So we went to him and the four sergeants and I,
five people, we went up there and said,
Mr. Parsons, you're one of the dukes, you're
better, well-known in the military, why don't
you try to get us an armory so we can have all
these people?
See, we have this war, we have a bunch of
people outside, and if it rain and sun and
all that. I don't cut it too good, so why don't
you try to make us a little better thing, bigger?"
He said, no. He said, if I wanted an armory,
I'll put it here in San Diego. I said, thank
you, Sir.
So, I left. So, we went to summer camp. We went
to the General Staff in North Fort Hood, Texas.
the battalion commanders and the division
commander, I don't know, General,
Major General McCall, I think it was, or, yeah,
I think that's the one it was. And we talked to him
and we tell him our problem. So, we talked to
him a little while and he said, let me talk
about it. So eventually they got our word and
after we came back 1972 they
started the National Guard Armory here. And at
the same time they started
Kingsville and Corpus and Robstown. I think
they just rattled them up a little
bit and said let's do this. And we built it.
I'll never forget we were
supposed in the open house it was in 1972 that
we supposed to be here. Well
no, all the top sergeants who were sent to
corpus to get shots, you know,
official examination shots. And our first
company, one of our first company
commanders here, Lieutenant Captain Mute, I
don't remember his first name, Mute, M.U.I.L.?
Oh, M.U.T.
And I said, well, he came back when there was all
this festival going because of the new armor,
and we
were up there examining whatever.
And our cook, I'll never forget our cook,
Joe Garza, a pretty good cook, he sat next to me,
meeting, I said let me have your papers here,
so I look at it, his urinal was dark
and mine was, it's a trace on his face, so I
got up and ask the, what you call it,
what the check was there? Yeah, the medic or
whatever. The medic, ask him what is
different between the two, he said this dark,
he says if we keep fooling with it
we find something. And this would here, it'd be
harder to find anything here. So I didn't
tell this guy nothing. I said, no, everything
is fine. Then I'm sitting there and I'm looking
at where the doctors took him up there and hide
him in the room. And I keep looking up
and what the, what then they put the lights on
and off and on. So I keep
on going, you know. And so I asked him, what's
the matter? And we happened to be
working together with Central Power and that
company. We used to work
together, but he was working in Keynesville. He
transferred me up there.
Pretty soon they laid him off from here. I
said, what's the matter? So they was
working up there, pretty soon they laid him off
there to work. I said, what's the matter with
that guy?
nobody want to tell me what was wrong here, you
know. So, I didn't know, the company
commander probably knew something, but I didn't
know I was the first sergeant here.
Yeah. And I said, I wonder what happened. Did
he cause the captain or something? Well, no,
later I found out that he was pretty sick and
diabetic or something, so they just let him off.
And he's still living, but he's pretty sick. I
mean, he'll take care of himself.
Now, back in the time when you were over in
Germany, what outfit were you with then?
Were you with a division or a company or what?
Well, I was with the battalion, with the 3rd
Army, with the anti-aircraft battalion.
778 AAA anti-aircraft.
778? Okay.
When you went overseas were you with them then?
No, I dropped there. I came on in
there when they were over there. Okay, so I was
like a replacement. You used to
replace them when you left and went over there.
Had you had training on any
aircraft here? No. No, so you got training over
there. We probably fired 50
calibers. Okay, and so was the Battle of the
Bulge over with when you got
over there? Okay. And they were fighting into
Germany? They were already inside.
And we take the supplies so much and somebody
else get hold of it and take it further up.
Okay, even though you were in a triple-A
outfit, you still didn't bring the supplies?
I was in the same group, only part of it was there.
Oh, they changed me around, you know, and
there's nothing on my discharge. I don't have
nothing like that. I don't have no good conduct.
I never did have to do anything wrong. Well,
I say it's all right, as long as I was out in
one piece. I'll be taking this here. In 1962,
we fired the 105th Reconnaissance Weapon, and I
fired three shots. I remember clearly because
a building, but I was young, I must have been
about 25. So I fired, they let me fire. I
sure knew who fired, because I was checking all
the firing branches, you know. So I stopped
and boom, boom, boom, part three. And I could
hear the ringing in my ear. But I was young,
I didn't pay attention. But now I'm 76,
everything comes to me.
I put on both sides. The doctor said, well, if
you can't hear too much, maybe this
helped and this will help. I find out that none
of them helped.
When you were overseas, what did you think of
your commanding officer?
Well, as then I had my, we were under a
lieutenant, which he was something like a
platoon leader. Okay. But it must have been
something like, at this time, must have
been something like a company, company
commander or something like that. He'd take
care of all the guard duty and all. So
everything was fine, fine, everything was
fine. They said we were in Nuremberg and this
lieutenant, I can't think of his name,
we'll see him, you'll know casually. So he told
me you're going up here and I
called him sergeant, I don't remember sergeant,
I remember one which he was
squad leader, and Eisenhower, it was the nephew
of the president, General Eisenhower, and
General Eisenhower was up there too. So then I,
I just knew him, you know, since he was
the corporate CEO from the Guard duty, and so
I, they sent me to Guard, and I
I remember he was one of them, clearly by name.
Oh, okay.
And so one time, the company commander's group
was up.
He said, at this hour to this hour, we want to
talk to all these guards.
So they brought the guards from everybody, a
bunch of guards, about 25, 30 guys.
And just for, in this part of the area where we were,
He said, we lost 3,000 gallons of gasoline. I
said, how? How couldn't we? And I was in
on Gorduey one day or two days, and the fence,
the, I guess the United States had a
fence through there for some reason. This
fence, put in a fence with this gate, and I
had a little something like a little chat just
to get when it's raining. So I
had a seat, sit down there, you can see
everything. So it was dark, I mean I
couldn't even see what was, nothing, everything
was very white. I don't see
why a lieutenant came by there. I think it was
a lieutenant, that he didn't just
talk to me, say everything is all right. I
don't know how he walked into me, and it was dark.
I said I wonder how he come in the dark and
just find me there, you know. I was in that little
scene inside the little shack, but you could
hear everything, you know. And he came in,
approached me right here, and talked to me. And
I say, who's this, you know?
You know, if it had been the enemy, they'd
probably kill me if you didn't shoot them.
He said, I'm the officer of the day.
I said, oh, all right.
I said, will you move back so I can sit up or
stand up?
And he stood up and I got the rifle and said,
now identify yourself a little more.
But I could see he was a lieutenant, so from
some place I could see the bar shine.
I said, all right, if you're just walk away the
way you came in. If everything is all right.
So he gave me more coffee. I didn't know who it
was. But he was a lieutenant, and I said, I
didn't hear him. I didn't see him. He didn't
even know a jeep or that.
So we stay there. I say, I couldn't have lost
the gasoline that time. There was no way.
I could hear a truck go by there or somebody
going around and taking five
gallon drums or something. So I told the
sergeant, I said, I want to change my guard
location to somewhere else. He said, all right.
So they put me in the gasoline
dump in Nuremberg, but I was close to the fence.
Here's the fence, and I was
inside, and on the other side of the fence was
the police, and they had a big hole
in the fence, where these guys guard the
inside, walk through there, go smoke way
up there because of the gasoline. And so the
police and the check is still, they
smoke. So I was there close to that hole, and I
walked back in that hole. And in the
morning, they changed the guards about six,
seven times that night. And I keep
looking, and they changed that guard, and they
changed another guard, and then they
would change me. So I wonder what happened.
Well, eight hours I guess. So then it was
early, it's about 6:00, it was barely coming to
light, and I saw the truck, it
was a one of those three-quarter ton weapons
carriers, and it was a
there was about six or seven guys inside. They
got out pretty quick, I could hear
cans or something moving, so I walked from the
top of the hill like this, here's the
fence, and all the tents are down here. So I
know that the truck is up there, so I went up there
and just kind of leaned to see what they were
doing. So then I prepared myself with the rifle.
I didn't want to make too much noise, but we
couldn't fire the rifle there. We'd probably
blow up the whole thing. So I walked back and
let it go through. I went to the phone. I called
the main gate. I say someone's going to come
out through the main gate. I think
these are the people that carried out gasoline.
The polish, they were inside
too. They had a string of polish in there. So I
want to talk to
Corporal Eisenhower. Corporal Eisenhower, this
is private Alvear, I say I want you to
have the gate check on these guys here, they're
going to be going out pretty quick. So okay,
they had the gasoline tank, it had a big great
tank like a horseshoe, and they were pouring in
there. And that's how I found out when there
were a lot of drops of gas there, you know. Yeah.
So I called them, they said, we found that, we
stopped that. Yeah, well, I guess they threw
them out the outside from the gasoline dump.
It's a pretty good-sized gasoline
dump. I think it must feed the whole town and
everything, all the military
deal there. What were they doing with the gas?
They were selling it on the black market or
something? Yeah. Now they were just some
regular soldiers, or were they the police, or
who was this?
Regular police, I mean soldiers, guards.
Oh, guards that were doing it. I see.
So they were selling, after they selling it,
black market.
Now these police, were they Americans or who
were the police?
The police.
No, no. The guard, that was the main gate. Yeah.
The guard, American soldiers.
But you mentioned there were some police inside
there, did you?
The Polish. Yeah.
Oh, Polish. Polish.
Okay. Yeah, and I talked to them, or both of
them, Polish or Czech, I talked to them very
easy, nothing, but I didn't know what these
guys doing, you know. I talked to the ones
outside, the ones on the outside fence.
Yeah, okay.
This would come in the truck, and it seems to
me like too many guards would be inside the
truck, you know, so they might be doing something.
They'd go to church, they was getting gasoline.
How did they get through the fence?
They'd get through the main gate.
Main gate.
With a car.
Okay, truck.
They truck, they fill it up and then they go
out like if nothing happened.
Nobody was checking them?
Nobody. They take the change of guard and go on through.
I guess that's what's happened. Then you check
them. Even though it probably smelled like
gasoline, the truck is floating.
Or gasoline is going out.
Now you say you translated. How did you learn
these other languages? France.
Over there?
there, I was a guard with Czechs, and when I,
he teach me Czechs and I teach
him Spanish, so we got together pretty well,
instead of telling hello in the morning or
tell me what you're doing, and you understand
what you're saying, sure, you have to meet
Polkowski, he checked, he said, throw hood and
mud, yeah, throw hood and mud, but I
forget all about it. I keep talking about it, I
mean, it seems like when I hear
somebody I can hear it, but it was talking too
fast or something.
What else happened while you were over there?
Well, no, they sent me home and that
was it, the fun I had. When were you discharged?
What days did you get out?
At Fort Sands.
On June the something, I forgot.
Forty-five or forty-six? Forty-six.
It was in May of forty-six. Yeah.
No, I can't think of it to serve my life.
You were overseas, what, about a year and a half?
A year and a half, something like that. Yeah.
Maybe two.
La Hague, France, and we went into Reichenberg,
that was a town that they left, and it was
already snowing, and we were in that boxcar,
you know, for the cattle and the train, and
we had to use the raincoats to put for the
wind, it's too cold, you know, everybody
I left it there so somebody has a patch for it.
I was the first one named, by name, Aviar.
And I keep jumping and everybody jumped. We
jumped and the snow was about this deep. And
I had to walk right in front of it. This is
funny things that I talk about. They took
They took me through there and I got zigzagging
on the little brush and all that, zigzagging.
I got up there.
I was wet up to here with my overcoat and my
pants, my boots and everything, just wet.
And I got in there and it say to the third
floor, so I was young.
I got up there and I start throwing the first
bunk, it's a bunk for two.
So I dropped my stuff and hang whatever I had
to hang and start taking off my boots
and so on.
Let's go take a shower.
No, not right now.
I'm too tired to go.
You all take it easy.
I want to take it easy.
Take it no close up.
So I took a little close up and I was ready.
I was already cooled down, you know, warm up,
so I'm going to take a shower.
Everybody has gone through taking a shower, but
there's still some late walkers coming.
they're still walking it to the child, the
child for about 12 people, you know.
So I noticed, when I opened the door, that was
a two-door I opened, and one guy
fall right in front of me. So I back up, please
give me your hand, pull me out of here.
And what, what am I thinking now, you know,
because what's going on in there? So I back up,
that was the only one and there's about three
or four inside. So I back up and I start calling
the guard that was in the hall. Guard, guard,
guard, call for the guard. So one guy, what's
the matter? Something wrong with the train. So
he went up there and then he run somewhere. I said
got it, sergeant, and then I went back to the
room where I was assigned. And I put the
socks, warm socks and everything. I said, what
happened? So later, everything went down.
I asked the guard, I said, what happened? He
said, no, these guys walk in there and
they were too cold from the legs and started
using a lot of hot water and they paralyzed
from here down. And when I was coming in Prima
Harbor, Germany, that's when I was returning,
turning, that's what laid me off. It's the 4th
of March, no, 4th of July, 1946, that's
when they got me in the boat. And so I got me
in there, I was, I said, it's a big day,
4th of July, I can't forgive this. And by the
time I noticed there was this guy in crutches,
Hey. What's up, man? He said, remember me? No,
I see too many faces. I don't remember the...
Maybe if you tell me your name. He probably
told me, I don't know. He said, I'm the one
that fall in the shower when you go...
And I asked him to pull me out. I mean, he told
me right away. He was in crutches. I mean, he
was out. That was no good.
So I said, well, I'm sorry to hear of it. I
couldn't tell, I couldn't know what was going on.
And since I have known and read about these
people put you into a chamber, gas chamber, and
turn you on, I say that's a gas chamber.
And that was pretty bad. I went to the chamber
superior in Dachau, Germany. It looked pretty bad.
Big rooms, like shower.
had the pipe there. It had blood when it comes
in the door. They had some of these doors
too, you know, and going to a room, just a
solid room, nothing, and you could see blood
all over the place. I said, oh, this is not a
very good sign. And so I looked at, then
I went in to see the beds where they take and
burn them in the oven. And then what they
deal with the edges I think they get it
together and sell it to the people that
belong to that body. Now when you went through
there what when was that in 45?
Oh 45. About what month? It was close to, well
it was during Thanksgiving.
Okay, so in November. Now, Germany surrendered
on May the 8th of
45, or May the 7th. Where were you when that
happened? November the 8th? No, May.
May. When Germany surrendered. That must be
now, by then. No, I don't remember. In 45, you
were over there in 45, yeah, I was there too,
in 46, but I wouldn't remember where I was
then. Okay, you remember hearing about Germany
surrendering or anything, the war
being over? Oh yes, I heard. In fact, when I
knew I was coming back, they gave me 12
days to go spot seeing, you know. And since it
didn't cost you nothing on the transit
bomb, you get this one and go wherever you
wanted. And then I'm ready to come. I said
want to see the case of Gorion, Gorion, the
leader of the Nazis.
The Hungarian? Uh-huh.
So I went up there, so one day, about one day
and a half, I didn't see very much, and
So when I got in the boat, that was in May, no,
on July, July 12th, I think, that's when
they have it in the court, in the Justice
Policy in Nuremberg.
And so when I came in July the 4th, that was
later on, and they claimed that in the boat
They put it on the papers that Gorin had
already killed himself.
Oh, yeah, okay, he committed suicide, yeah. Yeah.
I said, oh, yeah. Yeah.
Now, when you were in Germany, were the towns
pretty well tore up, pretty much damaged?
Nuremberg was, Munich was.
Munich wasn't? No.
A little town was, a big town, before the
factories and all that. Yeah.
They did a pretty good job.
Englishmen, I think, and the Americans when
they bombed our town. When I got in,
later when I came back, I was with the guard
and I was training a guy who was a
cadet for Hitler. Oh, okay. He couldn't speak
Spanish, English, so I
speak to him in German. I didn't remember too
much, but I make him
understand, and he was training, he said that
he come from Germany, he got into a
marine boat, a mariner, and he said, and I jump
here and there, and I come up here.
He said, but they caught me, and I had to go to
a military training for
six months, and then I can get my papers to
stay here. So he was trying through
the National Guard. And he didn't know how to
speak English and I tried to teach him a little
bit and all that. I kept him with me during
lunch, during sleep, all the time, you know.
And he was young, he was a young guy. He said,
I remember everything Hitler used to do.
He said, you guys go to military training, like
at the top sergeant, he just look at you,
Hey, do it this way. Hey, do it that way. Hey,
drink coffee. And you guys train. He said,
well, no, not right here. We all train the same.
One of our, out of private train run,
we run next to him. And he said, no, it's right
there. No, he said the big shot, they're sitting
down and he's, and the rest of the group's
training. No, we don't do here. We've got it
so we can keep up. Did you get any medals or
ribbons over there? Well, yes, I've got a bunch
of medals.
This is the 12th consecutive base with the
military service,
good conduct. This is an occupation in Germany,
it is a medal for being a good
military band. Okay. And this is a Texas
decoration and this is also a Texas
decoration. And this is what? This is an expert
infantry badge. You will not get
this in combat, you'll get it by pencil, you
gotta have a pass to examine. This is
not the combat infantry badge? No, combat
infantry has a wreath around it. Okay, and what is
this? That's the unit citation on rifle
companies or something like that, they give
these. The presidential unit citation? Oh yeah.
So you got that over there? Oh yeah.
And which unit would you get that for? This was
also for the anti-aircraft, all
the infantry part. Okay, but not on your
anti-aircraft? No, I didn't get none of
that. Okay. You're just a gunner and that's it.
Now which infantry outfit were you in to get that?
Uh, let's see here, I forgot what it was, what
it, why they gave me this. Okay. I don't know
if this
gave to me in Texas by the Texas 36th Division.
Okay. Or was the 49th Armored Division, I forget.
Okay, but this is the expert rafi. In fact, I
was the only one. This is side two of tape one
with A.B. LVR. Did you get home with any
souvenirs from over there?
No, I got a quarter of a piano when I shared it
up, but I got one of four quarter pianos.
I got a pistol, which I brought illegally, and
somebody got hold of it, somebody took
it out of a place where I was staying.
I was going to school in Beaville for mechanic
school, and where I live, I just left it there
and go for this arrow, and they came back and
they already got it.
I see.
Did you ever see any USO shows?
In the USO?
Oh yeah, I was here in the States, yes.
Okay, before you went up.
We went to the NCOs clubs overseas.
But this was just NCOs drinking and dancing and
so forth.
But as far as Bob Hope or anybody like that,
you didn't see him? No.
In the big movie stars?
No, no festivals, no.
And when you were overseas,
could you get mail pretty regular?
For what?
Could you get your mail when you were overseas?
Oh yeah, yes.
A regular, huh?
Yes, Sir.
That was no problem getting the mail.
Anything else you recall from your time over in
Germany, France, over there?
Well, not really.
Not really.
My head is sort of screwed up right now.
I can't tell.
No, really.
After I got those ear deals, sometimes I know
what I'm saying real good.